Meet our Members with ThuLan Pham

Tell me about yourself.
I am a Vietnamese American, first-generation law student from Moore, Oklahoma. I’m 25 years old. I love to Latin dance, sing, make people laugh, and make content. The main reason I am doing law is because of my passion for helping the environment, specifically the ocean. I dream about working with international ocean law in the future. Whether it’s a nonprofit like the Ocean Conservancy, where I worked this summer, or the UN, where I am working now, my heart lights up every time I get to work in the field. I learned and now speak fluent Spanish and am able to use it in a legal capacity. Last year, I participated in, and this year, I coached an international environmental moot court completely in Spanish.  My parents came to the United States in 1975, fleeing the Vietnam War. They didn’t have anything, just the clothes on their backs, and barely that. All they want is a better life for me and my siblings, and every day I try my hardest to make their sacrifices all the more meaningful.
Tell me about your experience as a first-generation student.
As a first-generation student, I am figuring a lot out on my own when it comes to my career path, but even saying I am figuring things out on my own doesn’t sit right with me. I am not shy and have always been so happy to reach out to people to learn from them (when they will have me) to see what/how I can get things done. I try not to be afraid and just take life as it comes, trusting I’m going where I should be if I’m working hard. No one in my whole family, immediate or extended, is a lawyer, and I have a family of 40+ people easily. I’m happy to be able to do this and help my younger cousins if they ever want to pursue law, and to also help my family should they ever need it.
What led you to study law?
When I was in 7th grade, I remember a close friend of mine who told me she wanted to study law, and I told her that was crazy and that I would never become a lawyer. I got a C in debate and never read for fun. But life is funny like that, so here I am, in my third year in law school, not knowing what I would be doing if it were not this. I was about to go to undergrad to do pharmacy like my mom did, but I wasn’t sure what I liked. One day, my senior year of high school, I walked down my stairs and saw my dad watching a documentary on an oil spill in Vietnam and how that affected the people, land, and fish there. I knew at that moment I could not just sit idly by and realized that the law was the best path with my skill set (or lack thereof in math) to make the most impact for the oceans, marine life, and people. I got Spanish and Psychology minors in undergrad as well. I wanted to understand people better with psychology. I am just really passionate about the Spanish language and always have been, so I’ve learned it for my own curiosity and passion. But also, it’s an official UN language, and it’s so useful to be able to use [Spanish] on a professional level.
Who has been the biggest influence on your life? What lessons did that person or those people teach you?
I have had many influences. My older sister, who leads me through life on a daily basis, helps me understand grown-up things, listens to me on hard days, and gives me guidance when I am lost. She also inspired me at a young age to care about the environment and the relationship between food systems and environmental and health impacts. Professionally and legally, Achinthi Vithanage has been the most impactful for my legal career. She is a professor of law and also an associate director of environmental law programs. All her titles can be found here. Since day one of being at Pace, I have gone to her for guidance on all things career and dreams. I have also been able to serve as her research assistant, and it’s been so cool to work with her to co-author something for the American Bar Association Year in Review article on the international BBNJ agreement. Super cool. She has taught me how to not only try and meet the standards of my employers but to take extra steps to really show you care about your work.
Any favorite stories from your experience as a law student at PACE in the UN Practicum?
 My favorite experience from the UN practicum so far is being able to attend High-Level Week at the UN, sit in Costa Rica’s chair, and also be on the big screens in the General Assembly. I saw the presidents of Argentina, Chile, and El Salvador, to name a few, and I was SUPER close to them. My happiest moment at the UN so far is one day I came into work and my boss didn’t give me a task yet, so I took some initiative and asked to cover some meetings on ocean law, and he let me. I got to sit in all day and hear delegates negotiate over ocean law. I left at 8 pm that day and didn’t even eat, but I didn’t care—I loved it. As a law student in general, my favorite stories are always the insane ones: my first all-nighter, then my second… third… fourth… I’ve lost count. It’s always in an effort to write some paper too. Insane finals schedules where days blend together and I’m in the library from sundown to sunrise and back, always studying with my best friend. I definitely have to shout out finding out I probably have some learning disability like dyslexia as one of my favorite memories, though. The first assignment I ever had to turn in for law school was a fake client letter. We were supposed to put anonymous numbers on the paper so that the professor could not identify us. I checked that anonymous number about 20 times and even read the numbers aloud so my boyfriend could hear and make sure I got them all right. I finally turned in the assignment, and not five minutes after I submitted, I realized that the numbers I used were out of order and flipped out. Since then, I think the stress and sleep deprivation-induced dyslexia has only gotten worse. I say this as a favorite story because, seriously, life is so interesting, and I think it’s funny, LOL. Keeps me real, keeps me human, and motivates me to work harder.
Tell me about the cases that you and fellow students are keeping an eye on today.
Since I do environmental law, a lot of what I learn about is administrative law (think EPA promulgating rules/law). Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo is a huge case right now that was just ruled upon by the Supreme Court. It overturned what agencies like the EPA have been utilizing in order to argue that courts should listen to them/give them deference when it comes to environmental information. Basically, now courts don’t HAVE to listen to the EPA’s environmental experts when deciding a case. The EPA could say something, and then the courts can just disregard it and listen to whoever they want to make a decision. It’s changed administrative law as we know it and as my professors have known it. Basically, no one knows what’s going to happen.
What are you most proud of?
Being the first in my family to go to law school and for not giving up. I’m proud of reaching for my goals while trying to remember to stay human and humble every day. I’m proud of dedicating my life to help the world. I’m proud of the wonderful friends I have made and genuine connections.
What do you hope the future holds for you?
I hope to graduate with my JD and two advanced law certificates come May 2025—one advanced certificate in Environmental Law and one advanced certificate in International Law. After I graduate, I’ll take the bar, then I want to take six months off after the bar to travel. Life is short! Then I will pursue a master’s and LLM at the UN Peace School in Costa Rica beginning January 2026. That will take six months. It’s a dual degree program—six months at Pace and six months at the UN Peace School. I have already completed the six months’ worth of courses here, so only six months in Costa Rica, and I’m home free. After that, I really want to work with international and ocean law. The director mentioned that she will try and advocate for me to get an internship with the Inter-American Human Rights Court while in Costa Rica, since it has a location there. I’m not usually a human rights person, but I have been working in the 3rd Committee at the UN, and that’s all human rights. And to be honest, it’s where all the work for the environment gets done. That’s where the best arguments are for the environment, so it’s really exciting. I don’t know if I’ll end up back in Oklahoma due to the nature of the work I want to do being international, but at the end of the day, I just want enough money to not worry about food, housing, and having fun sometimes; get married; and just not be on survival mode all the time. That’s the dream. (And maybe a beach sprinkled in there, ha).
Special thanks to ThuLan Pham for being our first featured member. If there is someone you think we should feature in the future, email us at lily@girlattorney.com with the subject line Meet our Members.
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Everybody Wins! RICOH Access-to-Justice Giveaway Winner + $30 off for all

We partnered with RICOH recently to do an Access-to-Justice giveaway. Congratulations to Rachel Brock (of GIRL ATTORNEY® – CO Member) with Durango Family Law, whose commitment to justice and accessibility in her community led us to choose her as the winner of the ScanSnap ix1600 Receipt Edition. Rachel serves as Chair of her local Access to Justice Committee and on the Best Practices Committee, she facilitates legal clinics, accepts pro bono and court-appointed cases, and is working on projects like increasing access to public transportation for court hearings. The RICOH-gifted ScanSnap ix1600 Receipt Edition will get lots of good use in her office and we are thrilled to have been able to be a part of facilitating this for her! BY THE WAY – RICOH is also gifting a discount for our entire Community – follow THIS LINK – and enter “GA24” at checkout to receive an additional $30 off the purchase price! P.S. This discount is made available through us, but you are welcome to share it with others.

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Are men lawyers paying enough attention to upward mobility?

A satirical response to ABA Columnist Susan Smith Blakely’s piece on women lawyers.

Texas attorney Tiffany Lori Field Martin, a Member of GIRL ATTORNEY® – TX, saw Ms. Blakely’s original piece and was curious how it would read if she simply replaced references to “women” with “men.” Below is the illuminating result.


The number of men graduating from law schools and joining the profession of law are at record highs today, and that is very good news. Men were denied access to law schools and bars for too long, and the profession lost out on a lot of talent in those early years. 

Men lawyers are generally highly motivated, remarkably organized, detail oriented, are effective time managers, and they typically do well in structured environments like law practices. These traits, together with outstanding entry-level performance, are positive signs of upwardly mobile career paths and cause for celebration from the generations of men lawyers who came before them. 

But more seasoned men lawyers know that getting the job and demonstrating potential is only the beginning. While developing leadership skills and climbing the promotion ladder is the goal for many men lawyers, they must be strategic. 

The pitfalls 

There are pitfalls. What works for men lawyers in the early years of practice may not work as well for them throughout their careers. And that is particularly true for men who choose to have children. There is nothing that can derail a career faster than the responsibilities of fatherhood—ask any successful man lawyer with children. It is a game changer that can cause very busy men lawyers to lose focus. 

I applaud lawyer fathers for their best efforts in keeping all the balls in the air. But I also know that they can get sidetracked; they have to take the long view more often than they do. Living only in the moment is a bad idea when it comes to professional growth and career advancement. 

Career vs. job 

A career is more than a job. A successful career has a path and an uphill trajectory. In private practice, that trajectory is associate to junior partner (or some similar salaried position) to equity partner. Some firms limit partnership to the equity class, and that can make the runway even longer in terms of talent recognition and reward. 

And a career is not just about personal success. More and more law firms are taking the team approach, and all members of the team have to be able to count on each other. Team members have to know that help is around the corner, and that emails will be returned with valuable information and in time to put out the wildfires. And those requirements are equally true for men lawyers—whether they have children or not. 

Fatherhood is demanding. Too often, lawyer fathers are so stretched and overscheduled that they cannot easily find time in their days to assist others. They focus on their own workloads and maximize their time between arrival at the office/logging in and leaving the office/logging out. Many of them do not take lunch breaks or have many conversations with colleagues, and they lose interest in promoting new work for the law firm, developing clients and attending firm social events. They are exhausted. 

Although many lawyer fathers may have spouses and mates who help ease their burden at home, little children typically look to Daddy for on-time meals, rides to school before the morning bell rings, checking homework, and general comfort and care. And that is especially true when Mommy is a busy professional, too. 

Although COVID-19 is responsible for gross disruptions to professional and personal lives, and the burden on men lawyers was increased during COVID-19 when working from home often included additional caretaking and teaching responsibilities, things will get back to some degree of normalcy soon. Offices will open up with varied models, and the responsibilities for interaction with colleagues and clients will increase. And the lawyer fathers will be expected to meet the challenge just like everyone else. 

Finding the time for all that lawyer fathers have to do is challenging. However, it is often the case that they are their own worst enemies. They typically are perfectionists, and they end up sacrificing good performance on the altar of perfection. 

It is better to do the job well than to obsess over doing the job to perfection, whether it is at the office or at home. There just does not seem to be any other way to meet all the commitments of being a lawyer father, and chances are that a best good effort will be enough to keep a place on the promotion ladder. 

Leadership potential as the path to promotion 

Two of the attributes examined during the decision-making process for promotion from one level of practice to another are success on a team and effective mentoring. Both are strong indicators of leadership potential, and without quality leadership and client development, law firm succession plans suffer. So promotion committees take these things very seriously. 

When counseling young lawyers, many of them complain about the low quality of feedback they receive from managers. The young lawyers are concerned about the impact on their own careers from this inattention and perceived lack of caring, and the managers they most often complain about are the lawyer fathers. 

But it is not only the young associates who notice. Promotion committees understand that a manager who shows little interest in the careers of his or her reports impacts the “growth mindset” considered essential to the upward mobility of young lawyers and success for the firm. 

The “growth mindset” versus “fixed mindset” debate is fairly new, but it embodies old concepts. It is now recognized that a growth mindset is the belief that abilities are malleable, and that people can gain knowledge and improve skills over time with work and determination. By contrast, a fixed mindset is the belief that abilities are largely innate and can’t be changed much or at all. 

It stands to reason that the management and leadership of most law firms would embrace a growth mindset because it allows for talent and leadership development. And if that is true, those same law firms should want to help junior lawyers gain knowledge and improve their skills with the assistance of more seasoned practitioners. 

Effective mentoring and leadership are essential to successful business models, and as challenging as it can be for lawyer fathers, they must be willing to be team players and invest time in the careers of others. 

Risky business 

To do anything less is very risky. As lawyer fathers strategize about their career paths, they must be aware of the pitfalls. They must understand that the choices they make in their personal lives, no matter how praiseworthy, can impact their professional upward mobility. They must make time for success in their professional lives, as well as their personal lives. 

A wise woman, the ancient Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, is credited with saying that to lead people you must walk behind them. And I would add this nuance—to lead people you must walk behind them with dignity, decency and grace and with a firm understanding of who you are leading and how to help them become the next generation of leaders. 

Middle-level lawyer fathers are key components to achieving this goal. They should keep their eyes on their career goals, embrace opportunities to demonstrate leadership potential, and continue the climb the ladder of success that was interrupted by the pandemic. They should be the survivors and future leaders we know they can be 

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Emma Watson has hidden 2,000 copies of ‘Little Women’ around the world

From Harper’s Bazaar:

“The concept is that 2,000 copies of ‘Little Women’ (in over 100 different editions) have been hidden in 38 countries across the globe, in cities including London and New York, all of which have a personal note written from Watson. It is the largest book fairy event ever.”

Read the full story by FOLLOWING THE LINK

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He said ‘yes’! Why aren’t more women proposing to their boyfriends?

From The Washington Post authored by Mollie Bloudoff-Indelicato:

“We tend to think of proposals as romantic and special occasions, but the history behind them is much more legalistic and formal, says Katherine Parkin, a professor of history at Monmouth University in New Jersey. Men get down on one knee to demonstrate the chivalry of their intentions and provide a diamond ring as proof that they can care for their partner financially. Because men have historically made more money than women, it tracked that they would be the ones to propose.”

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From A Hashtag To A Movement: #NatSecGirlSquad Empowers Women In National Security

From NPR authored by Rachel Treisman:

“Most national security jobs are based in Washington, and connections are essential to even knowing what opportunities exist and where to apply for them, Feldman-Piltch said. She sees the squad as a ‘hybrid personal-professional network’ that can help women break into the field and rise within it. And she believes the squad’s work will have an impact on more than just its members.”

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This Unflinching Photo Exhibit Unmasks Domestic Violence

From Huffington Post authored by Adalgisa Morrocco:

“‘In this exhibition, a voice is given to the bodies and injuries of women who have suffered violence, weaving individual stories into a single narrative,’ said photographer Marzia Bianchi. ‘The lives of the women differ, yet the pattern of violence is repeated, mainly at the hands of a partner, relative or acquaintance.’”

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Goldman Sachs Removed This One Word From Some Recruiting Materials—and Saw Female Hires Soar

From Fortune authored by Anne Sraders:

“Rana Yared, partner at the merchant banking division at Goldman Sachs, says that at the partner level, about 25% are female. But that a simple vocabulary change in the bank’s hiring processes helped contribute to 50% of her team being female at every level, from partner to analyst, before a big team merger.”

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Thousands of heartfelt notes spring up in airport breastfeeding pods

From SF GATE authored by Hannah Sampson:

“At LaGuardia Airport, she spotted a Mamava pod – a private space set up for breast-feeding or pumping – and ducked in before her flight to Boston. Inside, she found an unexpected chorus of support from other moms cheering her on. ‘Be kind and gentle with yourself. YOU ARE ENOUGH,’ one note said. ‘You are literally sustaining life with your incredible milk. Super-hero type stuff!!!’ another said.”

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Move Over, Work-Life Balance. Hello, Work-Life ‘Integration’

From Forbes authored by Brianne Garrett:

“‘It’s liberating to give up finding ‘balance,’’ says Elisa Steele, CEO of the New York-based human resources platform Namely. ‘In fact, when I was seeking balance all the time, I just felt like a constant failure. There is no perfect balance—it’s just life. It’s dynamic and demanding and fluid and forgiving.’”

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