“Former First Lady Michelle Obama‘s mother gave her a key piece of perspective at an important turning point in her career.

Town & Country published an interview between Oprah Winfrey and Obama, whose memoir “Becoming” is set to be released on November 13.

The women discussed the former First Lady’s journey from her working-class upbringing on the South Side of Chicago to becoming a lawyer. Obama described her sense of pushing herself on a particular life path:

‘In the book, I take you on the journey of who that little striving star-getter became, which is what a lot of hard-driving kids become: a box checker. Get good grades: check. Apply to the best schools, get into Princeton: check. Get there, what’s your major? Uh, something that’s going to get me good grades so I can get into law school, I guess? Check. Get through law school: check.'”